[WCUSP] Fwd: FW: Going It Alone? Interview with Marwan Barghouthi

[Odile Hugonot Haber]

From: JoanWDrake at aol.com <JoanWDrake at aol.com>
Date: Oct 12, 2006 7:47 PM

-------------- Forwarded Message: --------------
From: moderator at PORTSIDE.ORG
To: PORTSIDE at LISTS.PORTSIDE.ORG
Subject: Going It Alone? Interview with Marwan Barghouthi
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 01:59:11 +0000

http://www.pij.org/details.php?id=820
Palestine-Israel Journal
Vol. 13 No. 2, 2006

Going It Alone? Unilateralism VS.Negotiation

Interview

Talking with Marwan Barghouthi

The time has come to open the doors for a young
generation of activists

Marwan Barghouthi is a member of the Revolutionary
Council of Fateh. He is currently serving a life
sentence in an Israeli jail, but is viewed by all
observers, including Israelis, as a potential future
Palestinian leader. His imprisonment is seen as a
political act and his release will constitute a
substantial part of any future political breakthrough.
T his interview originally appeared in the Lebanese
paper al-Shira'. This is the first publication of the
interview in English.

Question: How do you envisage the future working
relationship between President Mahmoud Abbas (Abu
Mazen) who is affiliated with Fateh Movement and a
Hamas-led government in the light of Israel's
unilateral policy and the international boycott of the
Hamas government?

I consider that the building of democratic Palestinian
institutions consolidates the Palestinian struggle and
leads to the solidification of the partnership between
the various powers. The presidential, local, and
legislative elections are an achievement that is a
source of pride for the Palestinians and a badge of
honor for Fateh adherents because it is their movement
that has pioneered and founded this democratic
structure. Now the national partnership is being
embodied in the Palestinian Authority (PA) through th e
president and the government - i.e., between the
movements of Fateh and Hamas - and it encompasses all
members of the Palestinian Legislative Council (PLC).
In my estimation, the possibility of returning to the
negotiating table and the so-called peace process has
dwindled considerably, if not completely. This has been
the case, especially since Camp David and Ehud Barak's
declaration that 'there is no Palestinian partner.'
Ariel Sharon adopted this statement and made it his
mantra, and embarked on the liquidation of the PA,
including its president Yasser Arafat. There seems to
exist a general consensus in Israel regarding the
strategy of unilateral solutions that ignore the
Palestinians altogether. Israel's recourse to such a
strategy stems from its reluctance to accept a solution
that will give the Palestinians the minimum level of
their inalienable national rights. Unilateral steps
will not lead to stabili ty, security, or peace. Peace
can only be attained by an end to the occupation and a
complete Israeli withdrawal from the Palestinian areas
occupied in 1967; the establishment of an independent
Palestinian state, with Jerusalem as its capital; and
the guarantee and implementation of the right of return
of the Palestine refugees.

Will Hamas be able to reconcile between the logic of
the continuation of armed resistance with the logic of
the PA and the political process? This question should
be addressed to Hamas. Nonetheless, Hamas enjoys a
majority in the PLC and has formed a government on its
own; it has the right to choose its policy and to
represent it as it sees fit. That said, Hamas bears the
responsibility to preserve the national gains achieved
by the Palestinian people locally, regionally and
internationally. It should also be stressed that the
Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) remains the
sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian
people and the highest political reference. The fact
that the PLO now finds itself beleaguered with
stagnation and erosion, and needs radical and
comprehensive reform, does not invalidate this
legitimacy. I hope that both Hamas and Islamic Jihad
will join the organization, for they have an important
role to play in the Palestinian arena. I am hoping
mechanisms can be found for a prompt rebuilding and
restructuring of the PLO institutions, and I am looking
forward to the convening of the Palestinian National
Council (PNC) with its new frameworks, in order to
preserve the national unity within the organization. I
believe that according to the interim constitution, the
PA powers are distributed between the elected president
and the elected government, and Hamas has to take these
facts very seriously into consideration. It is
deplorable that a power struggle appears on tele vision
at a time when the real powers in Palestine are falling
into the hands of the occupation, and while the
Palestinian people together with the PA, the president
and the PLC are all still under occupation. The fact is
that Fateh was able to reconcile between the political,
the diplomatic, the negotiations, and the control of
the PA, on the one hand, and resistance and the
intifada, on the other, bolstered by international
legitimacy as well as laws and resolutions pertaining
to Palestine. Will Hamas be capable of doing the same?
The immediate future will tell. In my view, Hamas must
hold on to the resistance option and reject free
concessions, although it is going to find great
difficulty combining between the PA and resistance.

What does Hamas's new position signal when it talks,
for the first time, about the possibility of
coexistence with Israelis within two states on the
bases of a long-term truce? There is a consensus among
all the Palestinian forces and factions that the goal
of the Palestinian people at this historical juncture
is the establishment of an independent, fully sovereign
state within the borders of 1967, with its capital
Jerusalem, and the exercise of the right of return for
all the Palestine refugees. This is what was agreed
upon in the Cairo Declaration, which is an indirect
acceptance of the principle of the two-state solution.
In a message to the UN, the new PA Foreign Minister,
Mahmoud al-Zahhar, reportedly talked about a two-state
solution, and the leaders of Hamas have reacted
positively to the principles of peace as put forward by
the Arab countries. I think Hamas and its government
are looking for reciprocation and a price for their
agreement to any political move. They are right to
insist on a genuine reciprocation; it is neither
acceptable nor logical to give free concessions.
How do you envisage getting out of prison in the light
of rumors that you may be included in a prisoners
exchange between Israel and Hizbullah? First of all,
let me stress that my major preoccupation remains the
freedom of the Palestinian people, and I hope - even
believe - that the moment is close at hand when they
will obtain freedom, independence, and the right of
return. The liberation of Gaza is but the beginning of
the end of this protracted occupation. I am certain
that those who have succeeded in forcing the occupiers
out the Gaza Strip are able to do the same in the West
Bank and East Jerusalem. The occupation is living its
final stages and the Israeli attempts to salvage it are
bound to meet with failure. It is difficult to really
savor personal freedom unless the Palestinian people
have achieved freedom first. In the past few decades,
several prisoner exchange deals have taken place, and I
am deeply co nfident that our people will not forget or
abandon their prisoners. Nor can I envision a
Palestinian leader or government signing an agreement
that does not stipulate the release of all prisoners -
whose number is growing by the day - and leaves them
hostages in the occupier's hands. Ever since my
detention, many rumors have been circulated with
respect to my release. Sometimes it was as a swap with
Azzam Azzam, the Israeli spy who was incarcerated in
Egypt, or with [Jonathan] Pollard, or in return for the
search for Ron Arad. Other times it was as part of an
exchange with Hizbullah, or as part of an initiative to
bolster and support Abu Mazen. The truth of the matter
is that I am still in prison and with me are ten
thousand male and female detainees, most of whom were
jailed at a young age and are still languishing in
Israeli prisons.

The absence of Arafat has, among other things, resulted
in a leadership crisis in Fateh. Will the new
generation of leaders be capable of filling this vacuum
and solving the looming crisis? Arafat's martyrdom has
caused a big void both in Fateh and nationally. He is a
symbol and an irreplaceable leader and I would have
wished he would have accepted to hold the 6th
conference of the Fateh Movement before his untimely
demise. We tried hard, I and other leaders and cadres
of the movement, to convince him to do it, as no
conference had been held in over two decades. In my
view, it is the cause of the failings and stagnation of
Fateh. The outcome of the latest legislative elections
is but one of the results of having failed to hold the
conference, added to that is the absence of
organization and cohesion within the movement, and the
lack of innovation on the leadership level. This has
led many prominent and capable leaders and cadres both
from the homeland and the Diaspora to choose not to
form part of the leadership councils. We are
anticipating a conference that will embody the unity of
the movement and will consolidate its position as the
leader of the Palestinian national struggle. The time
has come to open the doors for a young generation of
activists which can be entrusted with the leadership
institutions of the movement.

The crisis of Fateh has resulted in the movement losing
its place in the PA government. Can Fateh live with
this unprecedented situation of being in the
opposition? Fateh was and still is the pioneer of the
great initiatives, from the armed uprising to the
holding of fair and democratic elections. The movement
will be a model responsible national opposition and
will safeguard the democratic experience. Whoever
believes that the fate of Fateh is tied to the number
of seats in parliament and the number of ministers in
the government is mistaken. The priority for Fateh wi ll
remain the realization of the national goals, and
holding on to the resistance option in order to achieve
these goals.

Is the trend, represented by Marwan Barghouthi, within
Fateh still alive? And what is your vision for getting
Fateh out of its crisis? I am honored to represent
Fateh and its illustrious history of struggle. Fateh
has given scores of martyrs, prisoners, and fighters.
Over the decades, it has led, and continues to lead in
its role as a resistance movement that strives to
liberate the homeland and to secure the return of the
refugees. We believe in the necessity of consolidating
the democratic system among Fateh and the Palestinian
people, and in the importance of the partnership
between the generations and between the Palestinians in
the homeland and the Diaspora.

The arrival of Hamas to the Authority gives rise to the
theory of the Islamization of Palestinian society
through the democratic option. I believe that Hamas is
fully aware of the priorities of the Palestinian people
in its entirety, which are to end the occupation, to
achieve freedom and independence, to secure the return
of the refugees, and to safeguard the democratic
character of Palestinian society. We will work to
preserve the democratic and pluralistic principles
within the political order. And we will work to
preserve the social, economic and political gains, and
protect and fight for individual freedoms and rights of
all members of the society. We are proud of our
legislation for the empowerment of women which will
allow them to have representations in local councils
and the PLC - an unprecedented event in the Arab world.
Although it falls far short of our ambitions, we will
present an amendment to the law with a view of
obtaining a 30-percent quota of seats for women in the
PLC.

Is Hamas capable of building a sta te? Or will it,
through its presence in the PA, build a broad social
base for an Islamic state in Palestine? As I have
mentioned, Hamas is fully cognizant of the priorities
of our people. Hamas and its government have to devote
all their potentials and capabilities to work towards
that end. The preoccupation with internal issues -
albeit vital - must not lead the government and
everybody else to lose sight of the primary goal of our
people, which is freedom and state-building, and for
which Fateh has laid the foundation as represented by
the PA. This is the task facing the Palestinian people
as a whole with all its forces, parties, and
institutions. It is incumbent on the Palestinian
government to preserve the gains achieved so far, to
capitalize on them and to increase them.

Is the option of an economic separation with Israel a
solution that will work in favor of the continuation of
a peace settlement and the establishment of an
independent Palestinian state? Or does it pose the
possibility of an intractable economic crisis,
according to the estimation of some Palestinians? The
Palestinian economic strategy is supposed to lead to
the liberation of the economy from dependence on the
Israeli side. However, this requires Palestinian
sovereignty over the crossing points, the borders, the
airport and seaport. It also calls for the opening of
Arab markets to Palestinian products and a future
enhancement of the work system. But there are still
very real difficulties facing the implementation of
this important national aim. It is difficult to build a
free economic system under occupation with all its
restrictions. The Palestinian government has to
encourage Palestinian products and to discourage
Israeli products and produce.

How do you anticipate the Palestinians, the PA, and the
Hamas government will be able to get out of the present
crisis? There is no doubt that the Palestinians are
facing a siege that is growing tighter by the day. They
are slipping into chaos on the internal and security
levels, and are struggling with a multiplicity of
programs and strategies. They will soon be facing a
dangerous challenge with the Israeli government's
attempt at an imposed solution. They will also have to
find ways and mechanisms to counter that, to revive
their relations with the international community and to
garner its support, and to hold on to the gains they
have acquired so far. The way out of this crisis, as I
see it, is to immediately embark on a strategic
dialogue on the highest level between the leaderships
of Fateh and Hamas in order to reach a memorandum of
understanding or a strategic agreement between the two
movements. The next step would be to present the
agreement and to enter into a dialogue with all the
forces, f actions and figures to sound out their
opinion. Subsequently, a national conference should be
held with the participation of Palestinian leadership
from the homeland and the Diaspora. This document will
have the advantage of representing all the figures
without exception, and includes the incorporation of
Hamas and Islamic Jihad within the PLO. Therefore, what
is needed is the rebuilding of the PLO institutions and
the restructuring of its councils. In addition, a
clear-cut mechanism of negotiation between the
presidency and the government has to be put in place,
as well as a well-defined relationship between the
various resistance elements, which will include the
creation of a united resistance front. Finally, the
government has to be formed anew, with the
participation of all the forces, and the proviso that
this should take place within a period of not more than
three months.

____________________________ ________________

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