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Children in Armed Conflict: Optional Protocol of the Convention on the Rights of the Child

  Children in Armed Conflict:
Optional Protocol of the Convention on the Rights of the Child

Palais Wilson, May 22, 2008 
Geneva, Switzerland           

DAY TWO (Day One was spent at the US Mission with US Officials-See separate blog on the Child Soldier)

WILPF, US focuses on counter-recruitment in the US. Other US NGOs and ones from other countries do so with other aspects of the child soldier issue, especially in Iraq. What follows is an edited, partial transcript. Bold print refers to some of US WILPF concerns in its report. Pages 3-5 provide some questions asked by members of the UN Committee on the Rights of the Child and some US answers.

In the UN treaty review process, several questions are asked in a series. Answers follow from US government representatives. JV]

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Ms. Yanghee Lee, South Korea, Chair

She cited that this is a historical moment, the first time a treaty review process involved the Protocol without support for the Convention itself, as the US is not a signatory to the Convention on the Rights of the Child.

First round will focus on children in most vulnerable situations.

Mr. Filali, Algeria

What instructions are given to recruiters? If violations, then what sanctions? Military entrance maps: future enlistee will spend short time with recruiter. Are enlistees informed of their possible future responsibilities?

Re CONTRACT: After oath of enlistment, military service begins. So within this program, is it possible to withdraw and what are the consequences? Is he subjected to reimbursement for his education?  If he (or she) doesn't obey, could he or she face martial law?

Mr. Citarella: Italy

[This line of questioning pertains to the US on the field of battle, not addressed by WILPF.  Human Rights Watch did document these problems.]

Question re whether in a military confrontation with the enemy, are children on the other side thought to be adults, without distinction?

  • Prisoners of war are kept continuously in a war as if it does not exist, when open war not declared.
  • Re terrorists, what about private organizations that enroll children especially in Iraq where there is privatization practiced on the ground. Are there any precautions vs. enrolling children?

Mr. Smith, Norway

This protocol is about prevention of child soldiers and care of those taken in as wards of US.  Many come from other countries.  US has been a leader in helping children reenter society.

  • According to quite a lot of information from Iraq, child soldiers are not getting enough health care. Is this question reviewed before judges. To what extent?
  • I liked what I heard this a.m. the fact that you aren't closing the door, i.e., outside the protocol you, US, would say, "We will go a bit further."
  • Back to recruitment spoken about before. The document says no one under 18 is eligible for recruitment. Re recruiter targeting when going into the schools, I would like to hear your exact definition.  What about "very aggressive recruitment." No illegal methods but going after the very young. Also, if it's a delayed entry program, whether it's made clear what is happening. You said 10,000 calls /year are made to hotline.

Ms. Khattab, Egypt.

Mr. Mark Lagon (Ambassador, Officer to Monitor and Combat Trafficking in Persons) was drafting of optional protocol your active involvement? Six years later, do you have to maintain all these obstacles?  Re Ms. Smith's question, brief us on the training of recruiters re Optional Protocol, e.g., what about Abu Grab detainees and others in the territories of war?  How do you insure safe houses and safe education?

  • What about detainees? 25,000 total or an average of 1000-2000 per month? Do they get their training in terrorism, while in detention? What are US officials told?
  • Human Rights Watch Report states that there are lengths of detainment of more than 120 days, and some detainees must stay more than one year without criminal procedure. See Ms. Smith's comments.

Mr. Profitt, Canada

Re Omar Khadr: Acts were committed when under 18. No release for rehabilitation, but held for military court. We'd otherwise refer to juvenile justice.

  • What about private arms sales to countries with use of child soldiers?
  • The 47.000 children/students enrolled in JROTC are a concern.
  • We understand this includes targeting of children 11-12 years of age. How much targeting is there? What about the use of military objectives in this practice?
  • Doesn't this Junior officer training corps fly in the face of the spirit of the protocol?

Mr. Kotrane, Tunisia

I'm glad to see two Draft laws. The Committee is pleased to see the rights of children in armed conflict involved.

  • Does your legal system allow prosecution of perpetrators outside the US? You say non-governmental actors with no reference to outside US as perpetrators of war crimes. Will your jurisdiction prosecute them? Do you plan to ratify the Rome treaty (International Criminal Court?)
  • What about education re human rights and their inclusion in the curriculum? Are they included in military schools?

Mr. Krappman, Germany

Problem: Are parents involved at end of process of recruitment? They need to be involved at the beginning.

Re JROTIC in middle school.  Do they use school day time?  Are activities under school supervision and the school board?  Are other organizations allowed into schools?

Military recruiters: are they allowed to present their views in the schools?

Can schools be zones of peace re Afghanistan and Colombia?

Expressed some irritation at the process of recruitment in the school. I hope not only recruitment information is provided, but also human rights in curriculum.

Mrs. Ortiz, Paraguay

What mechanisms exist for complaints? Are recruiters prosecutors?

What measures are available to determine if a child is a child or an adult?

How do you determine if families can visit children in Iraq?  Can UNICEF visit?

Mr. Kotrane, Egypt

Are detainees put before military judges under military sanctions? Do facilities for youth differ from those for adults? Is capital punishment possible?

Ms. Aidoo, Ghana:

Any there any incentives for schools? If so, they might lead schools in poor areas to seek JROTC funds?

US RESPONSE:

Mr. Robert Harris, Assistant Legal Adviser for Human Rights and Refugees, US Department of State

We are happy to talk more with you to clarify the meaning.

2nd issue re recruitment and its meaning in the Optional Protocol. 

  • 1-compulsory and 2-voluntary re when the person enters the armed forces. 
  • Recruitment: non-legal meaning as opportunity. Having said that, there are other important considerations. 
  • People have to be educated. 
  • Provide proof of age. We think we have good recruiters in place. We understand that age is not strictly within the boundaries of the treaty. We will entertain questions on that. Complex legal discussion ensued.

Mrs. Smith, Norway

We accept that this is your understanding of the Protocol and that you continue to accept this method of dialogue.

Re Arms Control Act.  Human Rights play a central part re direct selling.  US recognizes countries of concern especially those who use child soldiers.  Some not approved because of Human Rights concerns.

Each country reviewed, e.g., Sri Lanka.

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JV spoke at the break with CAC members: Ms. Ortiz, Paraguay, about the recruitment process, US power and authority and language use in recruitment.

Mr. Krappman, Germany, about the dire need for true due process with parents (I have had years of experience in this area).

Ms. Aidoo, Ghana, knew about the struggle vs. ROTC on university campuses and reflected on how it is now in the elementary school system.)

Mr. Padmanabhan, US Department of State:

"Security Contractors," must be fully vetted and above age 21.         

Mr. Kotrane, Tunisia:

Very clearly the US has said war crimes can be prosecuted outside the US vs. US citizens, if an attachment to the US.  Do accept process, if outside the US?

Mr. Padmanabhan:  Non-Americans who commit war crimes versus non-Americans are not included. Strict immigration laws vs. others participating in genocide.

Ms. Fry, Homeland Security:

When someone appears who says he's a former child soldier:

All such are interviewed by an asylum officer. Instructions: find out circumstances of recruitment, why recruitment, harm during service as a child soldier. Next, the entirety of individual's case considered. If the officer thinks the individual participated in such acts of persecution, then transferred to an adjudication judge.  Former child soldier can appeal up to two courts. Can go beyond to apply re the Convention on Torture.

Mr. Citarella, Italy:

During this procedure: what type of assistance?

Ms. Fry, Homeland Security: Pro bono assistance available

Mr. Arendt, Deputy Director, Office of Readiness, Department of Defense:

I am a retired navy officer and never would have thought in my childhood outside NYC watching planes, I would be a witness before this UN committee. I have participated in more protection of persons than in war efforts.

Regarding your questions, the US ended conscription in 1973. I was in the baby boom, population explosion. "It was rich with military veterans." Since the end of conscription, the voluntary force has declined in number of army volunteers. Now we have 15,000 recruiters.  We believe we have checks and balances in place to prevent excesses.

Part of recruiting is to make the population aware of the Department of Defense shaping recruitment with ad campaigns and identification of primary markets:  youths, aged 18-24, when making the decisions about their futures and when feeling most physically fit.  I excluded age 17, which is not a market of the US military.  People graduate from H.S. usually when 18.  Population at 17 when graduated is small. 

503, Section 3 has binding limits and rights re recruiting. 17 year olds are addressed.  Parental consent required.  Two parents must sign, unless only one available.  Not a trivial process.  We look to see that a 17 year old is not a 16 year old. Children today still try to do that today. Two forms of government identification, birth certificate or state identification are not easily obtained.

Re Mr. Citarella, Italy:

Are recruiters members of the armed forces? Is there special training for recruiters concerning the age of recruitment? Do recruiters in some parts of the country have an effect on schools or elsewhere? Is that information available?

Ms. Lee: NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND is where valuable information is obtained.

Mr. Arendt:  Schools must provide a directory of names, addresses and tel. and provide military recruiters can provide access to schools.  See recruiter handbook. Recruiters must provide opt-out for parents.  Schools are providing that.  Happy to say, no schools are violating that provision.

AGGRESSIVE Recruiting, no. Recruitment has existed since 1913. JROTC is in 33,000 schools. Because of monetary limitations, 700 schools are not yet supplied. Colin Powell called for building citizenship. Congress is asking for expansion for 4000 more schools for better citizenship.

  • Yes, a co-curricular program.
  • Yes, we appreciate diversity and respect for world population. Completely voluntary program. Most money goes to instructor, usually retired military. Half paid by schools and half by military. Administration of school is in charge. Program was developed in Chicago by Mayor Daley. Yes, fully integrated into school system.

There's an 800 number to use if student feels aggressively recruited. As for what law covers this question, UCMJ (military justice) covers recruiters through military courts.

DEBT PROGRAM: Young students given information that expands into career discussion re websites and pamphlets. Once decision made, recruitee is offered a contract. Opt-out is offered. Can they change? If coerced, recruit can call an 800 number. This is a process. Most applicants have an opportunity.

Ms. Ortiz: What language is used re taking children off the list? 

(JV raised this question with her.)

Mr. Arendt: All communication in appropriate language.  Dominant second language is Spanish.

Mr. Filali, Algeria:

Does a prospective recruit get reimbursed with money? If he opts out, what is his status? 

Mr. Arendt. Incentives are paid after completion of training program.  Through enlistment period and after leaving military service, there can be a generous in-service benefit.  If a drop out, the discharge statement that says unable to complete service.

Ms. Lee, South Korea, Chair: 

Anyone who has raised a teenager knows how they or children come home with hype about school activity.  [Implied reference to recruitment] Voluntary process questioned.

Ms. Ortiz, Paraguay:  Why is there a punishment when a youth is declared unfit?

Mr. Citarella, Italy:  What means are used to gain citizenship?

Mr. Arendt, Defense Department:

The US doesn't recruit someone on a visa or a citizen of another country. 

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JV: Didn't address recruitment of undocumented students per se or the use of bones and other incentives I raised the day before.

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Mr. Filali, Algeria

Other problems are there in the recruitment of non-American citizens.

Mr. Padmanabhan, Department of State, gave a long legal answer.

Ms. Fry, Office of Legal Counsel, Homeland Security:  There might be provisions.

Mr. Padmanabhan. There might be a breech of Article 147, Geneva Convention, if US in Iraq had recruited Iraqi citizens.

Questions on enemy combatants;

Ms. Sandra Hodgkinson, Deputy Assistant Secretary, Detainee Affairs, Department of Defense:

We have gone to extensive lengths to protect juveniles. How to determine their status? It's difficult to do without military identification or citizen cards. It's hard to make determination.  A series of screening procedures is used.  First a Q and A. Often don't know age/birth date, or detainees refuse to divulge it.  But within armed conflict, we do our best to determine within levels of screening. There is a seven day process on battlefield. Other systematic efforts are made re Article 78 of Geneva Convention. Re "imperative threat to security." No age determination is mentioned. Other steps are discussed. A review is needed every six months and after 365 days of holding detainees.

"Unfortunately, we incarcerate juveniles. We acknowledge and are honest to the best of our ability. Our goal is to get them the best education and treatment possible, rather than create more terrorists."

Ms. ORTIZ, Paraguay 

I see an inconsistency: You can't determine when someone is a minor?

Ms. Hodgkinson, Defense:

We are not in a position to deny that we holding juveniles. We need to stop recruitment into terrorism.

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(Ms Ortiz told me, "Everyone is fascinated by the US." Also she referred to "Partiento" =marvel in my dictionary. She mentioned the appeal of joining US army through her encounter with a Salvadoran youth while typing on her computer in a cafe. With great pride, he said he'd joined US army. "We are all fascinated with the United States."

Mr. Kotrane, Tunisia asked age of "minor" . . . (He looked at our NGO section.  I nodded.)

Ms. Hodgkinson, Department of Defense: 

We incorporate the best practices re model family visitation, full medical and dental care. Video interactions are possible. Will families have equipment (webcams?) Yes, if they have computers. Also, we are opening a family center, where families can meet youthful detainees.

Mr. Filali, Algeria:

I would like to thank the US.  We will be adopting conclusions and inform the state party dealing with the Article on voluntary recruitment, military programs and juvenile protection.

Mrs. Smith, Norway, questioned whether all detainees get the education. 

Ms. Hodgkinson, US Defense Department:

Summary of achievements. Most wouldn't have video facilities.  Red Cross involved. New family center. Involve all juveniles in Iraq.  New school up and running.  Goal is for everyone to be involved.

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JV thought: Perhaps US education for Iraqi juveniles and juvenile detainees in Iraq reflects US  recruitment in the US schools. HOW? By infusing the US educational system with military thinking through its recruitment methodology, is the military taking away full humanistic education?

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Ms. Khattab, Egypt

Is Iraq situation creating more terrorists or at least criminals?

Ms. Hodgkinson, Defense

Detainees are removed from the drive to bomb etc. and this effort improves non-criminal and non-bombing activity, because of lower recidivism. We hold detainees for less than a year. They could be held till end of hostilities.

Ms. Khattab, Egypt: Why are they taught English, not Arabic.

Ms. Hodgkinson: These courses are ones requested.

Ambassador Mark Lagon, Office to Monitor and Combat Trafficking in Persons, Department of State:

We believe we have a strong record.  We are trying to abide by both protocols and meet our treaty obligations.  We conclude that more people are being trained.  We've added our own Department of Education to know about the norms.

CHILDREN, HE SAID, OUGHT NOT BE RECRUITED. (Depends on what side.)

Ms. Lee, Chair;

We applaud this open and candid discussion. The September discussion of the Committee on the Rights of the Child: right to education in emergency situations. We are convinced that you (US) are committed.

Submitted by Jean Verthein, NGO Representative for WILPF, US to the United Nations

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